There is so much more. And as Ayn Rand used to say over and over again "Check your premisses". A reasonable opinion on Israeli genocide requires awareness of the basis for the ICJ ruling. Also, a different court, the ICC will soon issue an indictment for Netanyahu. Much of its proceedings are already public. Immense research on the basis for finding genocide s needed because the Israelis do not allow reporters or independent sources in -Gaza. Israeli actions woud be hidden except for journalists who risk their lives. 167 of them have been killed already by the IDF! Yet some people think they are clever when they simply write an apodictic 20 word comment dismissing all the facts otherwise coming out of Gaza, those very facts paid for "in natura" with the blood of those 167 journalists.
Here we go again The discussion today is the difference between what Dershowitz does, PROPAGANDA, and what he was supposed to be doing working 40 years at Harvard, EDUCATION.., Lstening to Dershow, you get only the former.
Comparing Dershwitz's PROPAGANDA to EDUCATION
Comparatively, Dershow's IDF Genocide and related themes are characterized by 1) his deliberate selection of half truths, distortions or simple lies and 2) manipulation of the podcast's listeners-. He is making a more or less systematic effort to impose his desired outcome to either reinforce or change a listeners attitudes, thoughts or actions. He presents as fact rapes, once reported by the NY Times on October 8th and then walked back with the 2 particulsr Israeli stringers (one of which was found to have worked for Mossad) fired for unreliability. He presents in three different programs a story of a beheaded young man a story which no media has carried and no Israeli institution has confirmed. He broadcasts hearsay despite its origin in a charged environment in which already several accusers have been clesrly determined to have lied. Dershowitz claimed two sisters had been raped by a Hamas gunman. Dershowitz NEVER investigates and does nor resd deeply. Everyone in the village home to the girls denied any rape. If a story, doubtful, quite untrue or meh, helps his narrative, he tellsiton Dershow. Deliberately half truths , distortions,lies allm mixed like s goulash. The premise of American education as evolved pedgogically is presentation of both sides of an issue, analytically examining both reasons to doubt a statement and to believe it. Critical thinking is expected.. Education theory and practice has evolved far beyond the learning format in a yeshiva school or a madrassa. There a student is taught to memorize. and sit still or, in the case of yeshivas, rock back and forth frankly like mentally disturbed people in a rest home or psychologcal treatment center frequently do, Has-Dershitwitz EVER podcast or spoke including BOTH sides of an issue relating to Israel or its supporters or on issues of apartheid and genocide? Or about what he was dong for 20 years with Epstein and the grommed, drugged girls? Or about how often he was at the Epstein mansion?Or his office there? Well, that is not Dershowitz's style. He likes Yeshiva teaching. The speaker talks, You listen. You repeat what was said, Period..
Dershitwitz could best reply: Defense attorneys by nature are absolutely not educators. Rather their success is measured by how effective they are at propagandizing.
CAVEAT EMPTOR is a Latin phrase you teenagers and single young women need to learn before digesting a Dershow podcast.. Dershowitz does not filter out lies, distortions and half truths . He includes everything, claiming it is all true.
Truth and Dershowitz are fundamentally strangers, having only a coincidental relationship.. Yet all these naive kids look to, of all people Dershowitz for truth because they think a celebrity will tell the truth. Being naive is a natural phase, but Dershowitz exploits it for his personal celebrity, public attention, a chance to be at the table, and IMO more than anything else to divert our¨attention from his notorious behaviour over 2 decades with Jeffrey Epstein's activities. If you are education oriented, there is actually a wealth of information on the internet about the sleazy exploitative nature of what happened. But as a propagsndist, Dershowitz is not going to tell details. Dershowitz: "I am innocent." and echoing inadvertantly Bill Clinton "I didn not have sex with that girl" Full stop. No more details. But there are more, many many more details.. . Prince Andrew may have hasd sex with her , Ghislaine may have and Dershowitz arranged for his insurer to pay a fortune to her to drop her civil lawsuit and therefore avoid her courtroom testimony. Yet Dershowitz gives no education on this matter but expects you to accept his podcast judgements, like about the IDF genocide in Gaza. . If Dershowitz actually is guilty or even if he wss just too close to Epstein or even participated in them form maybe 20 years, does the judgement he used then tell us something about the judgement he has now? The Dershow should be required by Substack to have a parental warning and an age minimum even if the age minimums are often ignored as they were by Jeffrey Epstein and some of his associates.
Thank you for your blessing. But you should use your time instead on an internet research of Dershowitz's alleged connection with child sex trafficking. This is the glaring nature of the term "morally corrupt" . And that is very relevant to this podcast. Because his judgement is colored by that same moral corruptness as he first histrionically denies, then defends the Israeli genocide.. Other than that I expect he and Eyaz Krim would become close friends..
So, are you saying these are fake? I have no idea (though the image appears to be a poor Photoshop), but I’ve heard sentiments expressed that are consistent with these signs. If these are real, they are wrong and amoral in my worldview. But if they are fake, that’s worth exposing. Simply attacking Dershowitz doesn’t help us much.
Absolutely SOME of them are fake. accredited news organizatiins in Israel and the US have determined this. Look, Greg, Israel profits immensely by creating a web of complexity preventing flow of accurate information. Correspondents are not allowed into Gaza. The journalists there have been targeted and 167 of them now dead. there is a lot of information on the internet but it is not consolidated and takes a huge amount of time to find. Then there are Israeli institututions that lie. A trendsetting NYTimes article by Jeffrey Gettelman on Occt. 8th, listing Hamas rapes and atrocities, was found to have been completelty unreliable by NYT itself with prodding by Intercept reporting on the ground.. The Israeli stringers for the article were actually fired. one of them was found to be connected to Mossad. Just like with the Epstein scandal, the truth of what has happened is still being obfuscated. And Dershowitz is ¨certainly fair game for relentless criticism as a simple propagandist and a man whose judgement and immorality is underscored by at least being complicit in ruining with impunity the lives of scores of underage American runaway girls who were kept groomed, drugged and penetrated..
Thanks for that info. Let’s not pretend that the other side does not engage in its own propaganda war. Israel, and the United States, and pretty much all organizations and institutions attempt to advance their cause through a variety of means, including media manipulation of the consuming citizenry. Ergo, Fox and MSNBC, and Whoopi Goldberg and Dershowitz. One has to parse through the source and their lens and make assessments based on one’s experience and own lens. Name calling doesn’t help. You can criticize Dershowitz all you want—your right as it is his—ad hominem or otherwise, but the more it’s the former, the less convincing is the latter.
Yes, plenty of stories out of Gaza have been shown to be less binary than originally presented. But some things are unassailably true. October 7 and much of its barbarism is demonstrably true. That barbarism is consistent with the worldview of the side that launched the October 7 attack. That side does not subscribe to a modern, classically liberal view of the relationships between humans and between humans and their governing states. All sides in war engage in brutality. But only one side here openly advocates for the genocide of the other, only one hides behind civilians, and only one views itself as in a constant state of war with the rest of the world that doesn’t subscribe to its theocratic, repressive world view. Given that asymmetry, I will always view that side and its media manipulation even more askance than I do the other. I am a libertarian through and through. I have pretty clear eyes about the shortcomings of the modern state and the flaws in our (US) history. But that doesn’t change my preference for an aspirational, humanistic, pluralistic, constitutional framework.
P.S. The photo posted here may have been fake, but the sentiments are not. We can all see and hear these very same sentiments being screamed out on college campuses and the streets of the Middle East. There are people who genuinely believe that rape and murder of civilians, and genocide of a religion, are legitimate responses to Israel’s existence in the Middle East. I’m not one of those people, no matter how poorly the IDF and its agents may have behaved. Calling out their sins does not balance, let alone erase, those of Hamas.
You write like me, very long. Your first paragraph-- -no disagreement there except the very last two clauses seem incoherent.
Second paragraph; your first sentence is exactly what Dershwitz refuses to accept and is the reason for my ad hominum criticism of his propaganda and his judgement (other than the effect of the pedophilia matter. which IMO makes his judgement and amorality critical issues)
He contributes nothing to these discussions.
One wise action of Netanyahu was to refuse to pick Dershowitz as Israel's defender in front of the ICJ. Just picture the State of Israel being defended by the world's most notorious accused serial underage child rapist. The world reaction would be- - -. a serial child rapist is needed to defend a state characterized by serial flagrant genocide?.
Up to "all sides in war" we are of course agreed. Disagreement raises its ugly Dershowitz-looking head with "But only one side"..The sentence beginning ."openly advocates" seems so irrelevant when that side (Hamas) has no practical means of committing genocide anywhere near the level Israel already has., Hamas is like a three toothed dog. Some damage capacity but nothing to get hysteric about . Hamas is basically a big Chicago street gang, representing a terribly oppressed and poor community. And secularly agnostic Israel seems more theocratic than not, in terms of its emphasis on limiting full rights to only jews as well as the leeway given armed vigilante ultraorthodox West Bank settlers to expand their theocratic territorial ownership by simply stealing Palestinian land . Their political party name is translated as "Jewish power".. How much more theocratic can it be?
As to the rest of the second paragraph, the idealism is ok, I think the usa while always having had a significantly great amount of hidden corruption may be at unpredented levels due to routine AIPAC/Israel,lobby corruption of American elected officials. AIPAC corruption is so intense and comprehensive that AIPAC even controls the political discourse and determines who will be (and who will not be) selected to control positions of interest to Israel.. Briefly stated the corruption runs so deep that an unregistered foreign agent has taken American independence..
As to your last paragraph, i think scale and the comprehensive flagrancy of the overreach/overreaction of the judiclally determined genocide needs to be emphasized. Hamas is Lilleputian compared to Israel's American armed Goliath. Hamas is definitely the absolute underdog as its people have been for 75 years. Israelis are faulted for oppressiig without callowing liberation. Israel ,the anachronism: colonialism formally dies out everywhere except in Israel's occupied territories. Equal civil rights characterize countries claiming to be part of the western world - - except Israel. And the Jewish State was founded with support from much of the world because of the tragedy of the Holocaust Genocide, yet we see the descendents of those victims performing genocide withnthe very same lackmof empathy on new untermenschen.
I re-read my first paragraph. I don’t find it incoherent at all. {I asked a colleague to read it; she understood it.) In fact, your reply illustrates my point. When you make the discussion about Dershowitz, as you continue to do, you deflect from what I see as the real issue: the evil pursued by Hamas and defended by others (which is what the original post was about.)
Whether Dershowitz is biased, whether he has his own morality issues, whether he is credible to you, or to me, is not the issue. Whether Hamas is, by itself, capable of inflicting genocide also isn’t the point. That’s a complete red herring. You might recall that Hamas initiated October 7, not Israel. They don’t get a pass for October 7 by being “Lilliputian” in comparison to Israel. Hamas is a part of a larger machine, that includes many other entities that openly advocate for the destruction of Israel. Iran has recently reminded us of that. You can try to evade that point, but it’s a reality.
Perhaps we should just get to the point: do you believe that rape and murder of civilians is justified by *any* entity engaged in warfare? I don’t. And that’s all this post was about.
P.S. Perhaps we need to use a dictionary as well. Israel is not engaged in genocide. Look it up.
Well we know that Hamas has raped and killed women, and killed babies too, and the "demonstrators" support Hamas. So .......
There is so much more. And as Ayn Rand used to say over and over again "Check your premisses". A reasonable opinion on Israeli genocide requires awareness of the basis for the ICJ ruling. Also, a different court, the ICC will soon issue an indictment for Netanyahu. Much of its proceedings are already public. Immense research on the basis for finding genocide s needed because the Israelis do not allow reporters or independent sources in -Gaza. Israeli actions woud be hidden except for journalists who risk their lives. 167 of them have been killed already by the IDF! Yet some people think they are clever when they simply write an apodictic 20 word comment dismissing all the facts otherwise coming out of Gaza, those very facts paid for "in natura" with the blood of those 167 journalists.
Here we go again The discussion today is the difference between what Dershowitz does, PROPAGANDA, and what he was supposed to be doing working 40 years at Harvard, EDUCATION.., Lstening to Dershow, you get only the former.
Comparing Dershwitz's PROPAGANDA to EDUCATION
Comparatively, Dershow's IDF Genocide and related themes are characterized by 1) his deliberate selection of half truths, distortions or simple lies and 2) manipulation of the podcast's listeners-. He is making a more or less systematic effort to impose his desired outcome to either reinforce or change a listeners attitudes, thoughts or actions. He presents as fact rapes, once reported by the NY Times on October 8th and then walked back with the 2 particulsr Israeli stringers (one of which was found to have worked for Mossad) fired for unreliability. He presents in three different programs a story of a beheaded young man a story which no media has carried and no Israeli institution has confirmed. He broadcasts hearsay despite its origin in a charged environment in which already several accusers have been clesrly determined to have lied. Dershowitz claimed two sisters had been raped by a Hamas gunman. Dershowitz NEVER investigates and does nor resd deeply. Everyone in the village home to the girls denied any rape. If a story, doubtful, quite untrue or meh, helps his narrative, he tellsiton Dershow. Deliberately half truths , distortions,lies allm mixed like s goulash. The premise of American education as evolved pedgogically is presentation of both sides of an issue, analytically examining both reasons to doubt a statement and to believe it. Critical thinking is expected.. Education theory and practice has evolved far beyond the learning format in a yeshiva school or a madrassa. There a student is taught to memorize. and sit still or, in the case of yeshivas, rock back and forth frankly like mentally disturbed people in a rest home or psychologcal treatment center frequently do, Has-Dershitwitz EVER podcast or spoke including BOTH sides of an issue relating to Israel or its supporters or on issues of apartheid and genocide? Or about what he was dong for 20 years with Epstein and the grommed, drugged girls? Or about how often he was at the Epstein mansion?Or his office there? Well, that is not Dershowitz's style. He likes Yeshiva teaching. The speaker talks, You listen. You repeat what was said, Period..
Dershitwitz could best reply: Defense attorneys by nature are absolutely not educators. Rather their success is measured by how effective they are at propagandizing.
CAVEAT EMPTOR is a Latin phrase you teenagers and single young women need to learn before digesting a Dershow podcast.. Dershowitz does not filter out lies, distortions and half truths . He includes everything, claiming it is all true.
Truth and Dershowitz are fundamentally strangers, having only a coincidental relationship.. Yet all these naive kids look to, of all people Dershowitz for truth because they think a celebrity will tell the truth. Being naive is a natural phase, but Dershowitz exploits it for his personal celebrity, public attention, a chance to be at the table, and IMO more than anything else to divert our¨attention from his notorious behaviour over 2 decades with Jeffrey Epstein's activities. If you are education oriented, there is actually a wealth of information on the internet about the sleazy exploitative nature of what happened. But as a propagsndist, Dershowitz is not going to tell details. Dershowitz: "I am innocent." and echoing inadvertantly Bill Clinton "I didn not have sex with that girl" Full stop. No more details. But there are more, many many more details.. . Prince Andrew may have hasd sex with her , Ghislaine may have and Dershowitz arranged for his insurer to pay a fortune to her to drop her civil lawsuit and therefore avoid her courtroom testimony. Yet Dershowitz gives no education on this matter but expects you to accept his podcast judgements, like about the IDF genocide in Gaza. . If Dershowitz actually is guilty or even if he wss just too close to Epstein or even participated in them form maybe 20 years, does the judgement he used then tell us something about the judgement he has now? The Dershow should be required by Substack to have a parental warning and an age minimum even if the age minimums are often ignored as they were by Jeffrey Epstein and some of his associates.
Interesting. You are doing exactly what you are accusing the professor of. Figures. That is what the morally corrupt do.
But may God bless you to come to what is right by God.
Thank you for your blessing. But you should use your time instead on an internet research of Dershowitz's alleged connection with child sex trafficking. This is the glaring nature of the term "morally corrupt" . And that is very relevant to this podcast. Because his judgement is colored by that same moral corruptness as he first histrionically denies, then defends the Israeli genocide.. Other than that I expect he and Eyaz Krim would become close friends..
So, are you saying these are fake? I have no idea (though the image appears to be a poor Photoshop), but I’ve heard sentiments expressed that are consistent with these signs. If these are real, they are wrong and amoral in my worldview. But if they are fake, that’s worth exposing. Simply attacking Dershowitz doesn’t help us much.
Absolutely SOME of them are fake. accredited news organizatiins in Israel and the US have determined this. Look, Greg, Israel profits immensely by creating a web of complexity preventing flow of accurate information. Correspondents are not allowed into Gaza. The journalists there have been targeted and 167 of them now dead. there is a lot of information on the internet but it is not consolidated and takes a huge amount of time to find. Then there are Israeli institututions that lie. A trendsetting NYTimes article by Jeffrey Gettelman on Occt. 8th, listing Hamas rapes and atrocities, was found to have been completelty unreliable by NYT itself with prodding by Intercept reporting on the ground.. The Israeli stringers for the article were actually fired. one of them was found to be connected to Mossad. Just like with the Epstein scandal, the truth of what has happened is still being obfuscated. And Dershowitz is ¨certainly fair game for relentless criticism as a simple propagandist and a man whose judgement and immorality is underscored by at least being complicit in ruining with impunity the lives of scores of underage American runaway girls who were kept groomed, drugged and penetrated..
Thanks for that info. Let’s not pretend that the other side does not engage in its own propaganda war. Israel, and the United States, and pretty much all organizations and institutions attempt to advance their cause through a variety of means, including media manipulation of the consuming citizenry. Ergo, Fox and MSNBC, and Whoopi Goldberg and Dershowitz. One has to parse through the source and their lens and make assessments based on one’s experience and own lens. Name calling doesn’t help. You can criticize Dershowitz all you want—your right as it is his—ad hominem or otherwise, but the more it’s the former, the less convincing is the latter.
Yes, plenty of stories out of Gaza have been shown to be less binary than originally presented. But some things are unassailably true. October 7 and much of its barbarism is demonstrably true. That barbarism is consistent with the worldview of the side that launched the October 7 attack. That side does not subscribe to a modern, classically liberal view of the relationships between humans and between humans and their governing states. All sides in war engage in brutality. But only one side here openly advocates for the genocide of the other, only one hides behind civilians, and only one views itself as in a constant state of war with the rest of the world that doesn’t subscribe to its theocratic, repressive world view. Given that asymmetry, I will always view that side and its media manipulation even more askance than I do the other. I am a libertarian through and through. I have pretty clear eyes about the shortcomings of the modern state and the flaws in our (US) history. But that doesn’t change my preference for an aspirational, humanistic, pluralistic, constitutional framework.
P.S. The photo posted here may have been fake, but the sentiments are not. We can all see and hear these very same sentiments being screamed out on college campuses and the streets of the Middle East. There are people who genuinely believe that rape and murder of civilians, and genocide of a religion, are legitimate responses to Israel’s existence in the Middle East. I’m not one of those people, no matter how poorly the IDF and its agents may have behaved. Calling out their sins does not balance, let alone erase, those of Hamas.
You write like me, very long. Your first paragraph-- -no disagreement there except the very last two clauses seem incoherent.
Second paragraph; your first sentence is exactly what Dershwitz refuses to accept and is the reason for my ad hominum criticism of his propaganda and his judgement (other than the effect of the pedophilia matter. which IMO makes his judgement and amorality critical issues)
He contributes nothing to these discussions.
One wise action of Netanyahu was to refuse to pick Dershowitz as Israel's defender in front of the ICJ. Just picture the State of Israel being defended by the world's most notorious accused serial underage child rapist. The world reaction would be- - -. a serial child rapist is needed to defend a state characterized by serial flagrant genocide?.
Up to "all sides in war" we are of course agreed. Disagreement raises its ugly Dershowitz-looking head with "But only one side"..The sentence beginning ."openly advocates" seems so irrelevant when that side (Hamas) has no practical means of committing genocide anywhere near the level Israel already has., Hamas is like a three toothed dog. Some damage capacity but nothing to get hysteric about . Hamas is basically a big Chicago street gang, representing a terribly oppressed and poor community. And secularly agnostic Israel seems more theocratic than not, in terms of its emphasis on limiting full rights to only jews as well as the leeway given armed vigilante ultraorthodox West Bank settlers to expand their theocratic territorial ownership by simply stealing Palestinian land . Their political party name is translated as "Jewish power".. How much more theocratic can it be?
As to the rest of the second paragraph, the idealism is ok, I think the usa while always having had a significantly great amount of hidden corruption may be at unpredented levels due to routine AIPAC/Israel,lobby corruption of American elected officials. AIPAC corruption is so intense and comprehensive that AIPAC even controls the political discourse and determines who will be (and who will not be) selected to control positions of interest to Israel.. Briefly stated the corruption runs so deep that an unregistered foreign agent has taken American independence..
As to your last paragraph, i think scale and the comprehensive flagrancy of the overreach/overreaction of the judiclally determined genocide needs to be emphasized. Hamas is Lilleputian compared to Israel's American armed Goliath. Hamas is definitely the absolute underdog as its people have been for 75 years. Israelis are faulted for oppressiig without callowing liberation. Israel ,the anachronism: colonialism formally dies out everywhere except in Israel's occupied territories. Equal civil rights characterize countries claiming to be part of the western world - - except Israel. And the Jewish State was founded with support from much of the world because of the tragedy of the Holocaust Genocide, yet we see the descendents of those victims performing genocide withnthe very same lackmof empathy on new untermenschen.
I re-read my first paragraph. I don’t find it incoherent at all. {I asked a colleague to read it; she understood it.) In fact, your reply illustrates my point. When you make the discussion about Dershowitz, as you continue to do, you deflect from what I see as the real issue: the evil pursued by Hamas and defended by others (which is what the original post was about.)
Whether Dershowitz is biased, whether he has his own morality issues, whether he is credible to you, or to me, is not the issue. Whether Hamas is, by itself, capable of inflicting genocide also isn’t the point. That’s a complete red herring. You might recall that Hamas initiated October 7, not Israel. They don’t get a pass for October 7 by being “Lilliputian” in comparison to Israel. Hamas is a part of a larger machine, that includes many other entities that openly advocate for the destruction of Israel. Iran has recently reminded us of that. You can try to evade that point, but it’s a reality.
Perhaps we should just get to the point: do you believe that rape and murder of civilians is justified by *any* entity engaged in warfare? I don’t. And that’s all this post was about.
P.S. Perhaps we need to use a dictionary as well. Israel is not engaged in genocide. Look it up.
Thank you Professor. I know you research and do not use wrong info even if I disagree with you at times.
I appreciate your articles very much.
But those who hate will always find what they consider facts, usually one sided, to support their hate and moral decayed corruption.
Dr Phil with the son of the Hamas co-founder put it very well.
Unreal the comments that come through.
God bless everyone.